Tiler Peck: They quickly figured out that I was a very fast learner. So anytime anybody went out of anything in the Corps I always knew the steps and they knew that they could throw me in and I could do it.

Tiler: My whole life kind of revolves around dance at this moment, because I feel like all of the other things can happen. Dance is such a short career that I want to give it all while I can.

Tiler: Seeing a young talent and then helping them develop. One day I think I would love to direct a company.

Alistair Spalding: So, welcome to this edition of Choreographer Conversations. And it’s an unusual one because our guest is Tiler Peck. And you are a choreographer and you’re making your headway there. But also, as we’ve seen this week, at Sadler’s Wells, you are still at the height of your powers as a performer and dancer. So I’m going to talk about both those or ask you about both of those aspects of your life. But we always start at the very beginning. And you had a very early start with a dance career because your mother was running a, who’s a very important part of your life, I know was running a ballet school. So how old were you when you entered the studio?

Tiler: I was practically like babysat there, so I don’t even remember, like, not being there. And her studio actually had all kinds of styles of dance, but she was the ballet teacher, so she was my official first ballet teacher. And she used to say that she would try to put me into my age appropriate class and I would somehow, somehow always try to get back into the adult class, which was what she was teaching or not adult, but it was the advanced class. And I would be in the back trying to do whatever I thought was dancing and trying to keep up. But yeah, around two-three is when I started dancing, that young.

Alistair: Yeah. Wow. That is very young.

Tiler: It is. And she told me, like, even at like age three, I was able to remember, like a two minute dance that she taught me, which she thought, okay, like, wow, she really has musicality and she can really remember steps. And I was like, I don’t really remember that at three, but it’s pretty impressive I guess, I don’t know.

Alistair: Yeah, so basically it was in you, somehow, wasn’t it? From the very beginning, this ability to learn musicality, all those all those aspects of being a dancer were there from the very, very start.

Tiler: I guess so. I know my sister danced to, but I think there was something with like rhythm and music that my mum saw quite early on that I was able to sort of pick up really quickly.

Alistair: Yeah. And how was it, you know, with your mum? So did you do what you were told because she was your mother? Was it awkward?

Tiler: It was so bad! I would, like, try to raise my hand because I always knew the answer and she would never call on me. And then when we got home, I would say, Mum, like I knew the answer and my hand was up, but you didn’t call on me. And she said, because I know you know the answer. I need to make sure all the other students do. But that was what was so amazing is that at six years old, she said, you know, I just want to be your mum, and I don’t want to be your teacher anymore. So we can just have that type of relationship. And it was like, I think the best thing she could have done because I love so much having a mum that knows what she’s looking at. So I can like ask her afterwards, like, how did this look in the show? And, you know, she’ll tell me, but she’s not one to give it unless I ask. So it doesn’t feel like I have a stage mum at all, even though she really knows exactly what she’s watching.

Alistair: And that continues now, does it?

Tiler: Yeah, that’s what I mean. Like last night after the show, I said to her, oh, how was this one little part? It felt a little like… And she’s like, do you want me to be honest? And I was like, yes. And then she would tell me and I was like, okay, so if you felt okay about it, then I could feel okay because she’s tough, like with everybody. Or she’ll say, you know, Chris was a little early here. Do you think you can tell him to be on time? So I’m like, guys, Chris, my mum said you were a little early. And he goes, okay, I better get it right. And then afterwards she goes, you were on time, Chris. So yeah.

Alistair: That’s nice. That’s really nice. And then you also started on Broadway quite early too,didn’t you? You were actually in a Broadway show. I think I worked out you must have been 11.

Tiler: I was. I was 11, yeah. I guess I always thought I kind of liked jazz and contemporary and, I acted a bit because I was from California, and so I thought maybe I would maybe do more Broadway type things as a career. And so I got the audition for The Music Man, and it was to audition in New York and my mum said, okay, we’ll just make a fun trip. Like, she didn’t think I was going to get it at all. I didn’t either. And so we just made a little vacation to New York out of it. And then I kept getting kept. You know, it was like a long, full day audition. And they kept cutting people. And I kept staying and staying, I think my mum kept getting a little nervous now. She was like, oh, like, she’s kind of staying a long time. Because I was playing Gracie Shinn, the mayor’s youngest daughter. But the woman that I was going to replace was 18 years old, playing an 11 year old. So I was literally the only one in the audition that was actually 11. Everybody else was like 17, 18. And I ended up getting the job and my mum was like, you are not moving to New York at 11. Like, I’m sorry. And I don’t know what overcame me to say this, but I said, but mum, what if I never get a Broadway show ever again? And you didn’t let me do it? And I think she just thought, wow, that would be really horrible and, so she let me do it. And I ended up moving to New York, but I moved with my grandmother.

Alistair: Okay.

Tiler: Yeah, my grandmother lived with me in New York for a year while I did the show. I’m very close with my family, but I don’t come from a family where my parents couldn’t work in order for that, for me to live in New York. So my mum had to keep the studio going, and my dad had to keep working back home in Bakersfield. So that’s why my grandmother moved with me.

Alistair: Wow.

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: So that was it. You were in New York at 11, in a Broadway show.

Tiler: Exactly.

Alistair: What a thing!

Tiler: And that’s when I really fell in love with ballet.

Alistair: Oh, really? In a musical?

Tiler: Yes. Because my dad got us tickets to see the New York City Ballet do The Nutcracker at Christmas time. And we all went as a family, and I just had never seen anything like it. And I said, Daddy, I’m going to dance on that stage someday. And I had taken ballet very seriously. My mum said, you know, even if you don’t want to be a ballet dancer, that’s where the technique comes from. So take it seriously. And so I did, and she got me private lessons in California. And one of my teachers in California happened to be a former principal dancer. So, with the New York City Ballet. So she said, while you’re in New York, you should try and audition for SAB, School of American Ballet. And so that’s what I did. And so during the days I would go to School of American Ballet, and at night I would go do Music Man on Broadway.

Alistair: So you were, you started at the school..

Tiler: I started at the school

Alistair: at the same time as you were doing the musical.

Tiler: Yeah. And I remember some of my teachers came and saw me in The Music Man. That taught me at SAB, and it was really special to have them come and see me.

Alistair: You really did grow up in the theatre, didn’t you? Literally.

Tiler: I guess so, yeah, I did and then the show closed and even though I loved being at SAB and studying ballet, I really missed home. I missed my parents, I missed, a normal school.

Alistair: You must have been boarding while you were at the school

Tiler: I did, I was. I moved halfway through the school year, so I continued on. I did like what they would call, like, correspondence at that time with my school back in Bakersfield, because I didn’t want to do full home schooling. And so I missed my family, and I, I went home. It also was, September 11th had just happened. And that’s why the show kind of closed. And I think I was also a little scared. I didn’t really understand what was happening. I just wanted to be with my mum and dad. So I went home and I kept coming to the SAB summer courses. That was my way of still staying there, but getting to be home for the year. So I went for three summer courses and they kept asking me, we would like for you to stay for the winter term. So finally, when I was 14, they said, we really want you to stay this year. And I said to my mum, I think I can do it. And that was the first year that I did like boarding in the dormitories.

Alistair: I see.

Tiler: And I went to an actual high school in New York and after that year I got into the company. One year, and I was 15.

Alistair: I know! I’m working that out at 15, you started in the Corps de Ballet?

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: Which is pretty young.

Tiler: Yeah, It’s very, I don’t, I think there’s now even a rule where you have to be like 17, 18 or something.

Alistair: Yeah.

Tiler: But I did not expect to get in. We always do an End of the year workshop. And I was doing leads in the show. I was doing The Russian Girl in Serenade, and I was doing a lead in a ballet we called Union Jack. So I did have some of the leads on, like the most important night, but I thought for sure I would be going back for a second year and so when I got my apprenticeship that night, I was, I kind of couldn’t believe it, but I thought, okay, I guess this is where I’m going to be a ballerina now, you know, because I, I just yeah, I don’t know. It just happened.

Alistair: Things slowed down then quite considerably because it was it was, it was 17 when you became a Soloist.

Tiler: Exactly, yeah.

Alistair: And then Principal two years after that. So 19 you were a Principal at the…

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: That’s pretty remarkable, isn’t it?

Tiler: Yeah. I was really lucky that they quickly figured out that I was a very fast learner. So anytime anybody went out of anything in the Corps, I always knew the steps. And they knew that they could throw me in and I could do it. So really, as an apprentice, you have a full year to get your Corps contract. But I got mine in five months, because if you get a certain number of ballets, I think it was seven back then. They have to give you your Corps contract. And that’s what happened. I started getting thrown into so many ballets that after five months they had thrown me into seven ballets, so I had to get my Corps contract. So that’s kind of what started me, on a faster pace. And then they just felt like they could rely on me

Alistair: Just to talk about ballet as a form for a minute. William Forsythe, who we’re going to talk about a bit later because he’s quite important in your journey. He said once, you don’t learn ballet, you become ballet.

Tiler: Oh, I love that.

Alistair: So that you, it becomes, you become the thing itself. It’s a, do you think that’s true? Do you think it’s in your very body and movement? You are ballet?

Tiler: I think so, I think it becomes it kind of overtakes your whole body in a way. It’s something that requires so much precision, dedication, like fine tuning, that it almost makes you feel like you understand yourself more than you thought you could, even as a person, because you’re so in tune with every sort of part of your being. So I’ve never heard it put that way, but I always love the way Bill phrases anything. It’s like it’s always the best way.

Alistair: Very smart.

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: So just talking about the daily routine to keep that. Just tell us what your, an average day is. I mean when you’re performing at NYCB.

Tiler: So we have a class every day, ballet class at 10:30 and it’s not mandatory but I always take it, unless I like am injured or something and can’t, I’m always there because I feel like that’s where you keep improving the technique. And the minute you don’t have a teacher there, or you’re not looking at yourself every day trying to keep up the technique, it can start to fall. So I take it every day, and then we can be rehearsed from the hours of twelve until six. And so the hardest day is they can rehearse you three hours, and then you have to have an hour off. So it’d be like twelve to three, four to six, and then the show at 7:30. And I do that every day but Monday.

Alistair: I think people don’t really understand that actually.

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: I mean, if you think of an actor, they turn up half an hour before the show sometimes and, but dancing is a full time thing isn’t it?

Tiler: It is, even when you go home at night, I feel like all I’m doing is taking care of my body in the way that I can help it feel its best for the next day. So, I mean, not everybody does that. But for me, my whole life kind of revolves around dance at this moment because I feel like all of the other things can happen. Dance is such a short career that I want to give it all while I can. And then afterwards I can, you know, walk along the… I got to save my legs for just dancing instead of, you know, when family comes into town and they want to walk around New York City, I’m like, I’m sorry, I can’t. I can’t do that. I got to save the legs for tonight.

Alistair: There’ll be plenty of time to walk later on.

Tiler: Exactly. That’s what I think.

Alistair: You were saying earlier that particularly right now, you have quite a heavy schedule at New York City Ballet. I mean, so we talked about the daily routine, but how many performances are you doing on average a week?

Tiler: My gosh, this past season I said, wow, they really cast me like I was 16 years old again. And somehow my body held up, which I’m really grateful for. But I did two Raymondas, I did, Justin Peck had a premiere, so I did three of those. He had another ballet that went, called Dig the Say, that was made for Roman and I, and I did four of those. I did three dances at a gathering, three Sleeping beauties, two Everywhere we goes. I mean, I was on, I had like multiple weeks of six shows, which isn’t always the case. There are some people that maybe do like six shows an entire season. So, I think I had like 20 something. Yeah.

Alistair: But they obviously want you, you bring people in and so they want to

Tiler: I know, I guess I could say maybe. Oh, I don’t want to do that ballet, but I still really want to do it. So I haven’t gotten to that point yet where I’m, there’s certain ballets where I think, okay, I can leave that one. I don’t need to do it anymore. But this season wasn’t like that. It was all ones that I really love dancing. So I was on a lot, a lot of nights.

Alistair: If I can just talk about some of the choreographers that you’ve worked with, or rather their work. So obviously Balanchine, you would never have met. But I mean, it’s a obviously Balanchine is like the base New York City Ballet, really, isn’t it? You do so much of it.

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: Who would you say is your, who is your go to choreographer? Either dead or alive in that sense.

Tiler: Ah, so hard. So like Balanchine to me, his ballets just feel sort of timeless. Like, I can’t believe he made Serenade so long ago and it still feels like it could be made today. And Robbins’ works, I learned so much about myself, I think, as a ballerina through them, because he kind of makes you, or forces you to show more humanity in the dancing. They’re not so flashy as the Balanchine kind of masterpieces, and they’re more pedestrian like. So I feel like I kind of grew up a little bit when I had to dance his roles, and I was given them quite young, and so they really helped me become more of an artist. But for living choreographers, I mean, I’ve only really gotten to have Bill Forsythe choreographed one thing on me, which is The Barre Project, but I just love working with him so much. He is, he knows how to push you in ways, but he’s just the best person like, I don’t know. I felt like we became the best friends, like the bestest of friends getting to work on this project together. And, I feel like things that he taught me, I can, taught me while we were working together, I can carry over into any of my dancing and also as a choreographer, like he kind of gave me. I feel like a master class every day, getting to hear him talk about why he does something or, you know, when he heard I was doing my first ballet for the company, he said, and Tiler, you better make them dance to the different spots like, do not have them walk. I’m sick of people having them walk or run. You make them dance. And so he gives me a little advice. That’s funny coming from him because he, he lets people walk.

Alistair: That’s funny coming from him because he, he lets people walk.

Tiler: Yes, but I know what he means. Like, he, we both really love Balanchine, and he talks a lot about, like, how his Blake Works for The Paris Opera. What he was watching at that time was a lot of I think it was Theme or Concerto Barocco or something, but just the structure of a Balanchine ballet is so good. And so when I told him about my next ballet for the company and what I wanted to do, and it was all about structure and how I loved the old fashioned structure that Balanchine used for this ballet, Symphony in C, and how I wanted to try something like that. He was so excited for me. He goes, I think the number one thing is always structure for the beginning. So yeah, I mean, but I get to work with so many, like I, we have Wheeldon, Christopher Wheeldon, Justin Peck and Alexei Ratmansky, also at the ballet and, I’m so lucky that I get to work with all of them quite frequently. They all bring a little something different.

Alistair: And there’s another person that’s important in your life, is Baryshnikov As a dancer rather than a choreographer I know he worked quite closely with the Robbins.

Tiler: Yeah, he did.

Alistair: Recently with you. That must be a very precious thing.

Tiler: Yeah. So I first met him, actually, when I was quite young in the company. Benjamin Millepied asked me to dance Tarantella for a gig he was doing, and he said, and Mikhail is going to coach you, and Daniel Ulbricht. And I thought, oh my gosh, I don’t think I said one word. I just kind of like stared the whole time. And then over the years, I kept, you know, meeting him at functions and things like that and I was always just too shy to say, you know, hello. It’s like for some reason, whenever I get in the room with him, I, like, cannot speak and then he came to the ballet and helped with other dances, and that’s when I really got to work with him a lot, like over a period of a couple days. And still I saw him a few days after and he said, Tiler, are you going to say hi? And I was like, I didn’t know if you’d remember me. And he was like, we’ve met so many times, of course I remember you. And I was like, I know I just get like really weird. But then for Suite of Dances, he actually offered to help me if I wanted to, with Suite of Dances, which was made for him by Jerome Robbins, and I was getting to be the first female to dance the solo. And I said, of course, I even flew back. I remember I was somewhere and I flew back for just 24 hours so that I could work with him because he only had that day free. And I think I flew back from like, Spain or something. But it was so worth it. I loved being in the studio with him, and he was like, you know, I can’t really do it anymore. But he was up doing it, you know, all I needed was to see him kind of go through the steps. And he said, you know, I wasn’t quite sure how I thought it was going to be for like a female to dance the solo. He was like, but you really understand it. And he kind of gave me confidence going into the first show. And then he came to see me, and I remember being so nervous to see him afterwards, but he was so supportive and just said, you must keep dancing this. You’re really right for it. And that was all I needed. I didn’t care about anybody else’s opinion. If he thought I was right and he worked with Robbins, then that was all I needed. And so, yeah, he was really just very giving. Generous with his time and he even called me after we worked for that day and said, you know, I was thinking, all those things. I told you, just forget them. And I was like, wait, what? And he said, yeah, you know, that’s how Jerry would do. He would kind of set all these things on us and then say, okay, but now it’s yours. Take it. And he says, so if you remember one or two things, great. And if you don’t, that’s fine too. Just make it your own.

Alistair: Yeah. Good advice.

Tiler: Great advice. Yeah.

Alistair: Okay, we’re going to move on to you as a choreographer now.

Tiler: Okay.

Alistair: And do you, as far as I understand, you had your first chance in Vail at the festival with Damien, who was running it. He gave you…he said, make something.

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: Is that right?

Tiler: Yes, I don’t know if you know this, but I was Damian’s last partner in New York City Ballet.

Alistair: Oh, really?

Tiler: His last year, he was retiring. He picked me out of the Corps when I was, like, 17, 18. I can’t remember, I think I was 17 and I danced three different roles with him. I did the pax de dux in Fancy Free, that girl. I did An American in Paris by Christopher Wheeldon with him, and I did Carousel by Christopher Wheeldon. And I mean, what a dream to get, as a young Corps dancer, to get to dance with one of the best principals that’s retiring. And so he really looked out for me after he left and followed my career. And him and his wife, Heather Watts, have been huge mentors, and coaches for me through everything. And so I had been going to Vail for a few years, and he said, I remember they took me out on my birthday in New York, and they said, I think this is the year you should try choreographing, because they knew I choreographed at my mother’s dance studio, but they were jazz dances. And for, you know, kids that are eight to 14, not like professionals and not ballet at all. And he said, I think you should try this year. And I was like, really? and I said, I don’t, I don’t think so but I’d had a lot of things going on in my life at that moment. And I thought, you know, I don’t think anything can really get worse than what’s happening right now. And I said, okay, so maybe now is the time to try it out and he said, okay. And I remember like a few days later, there was a New York Times announcement, so I couldn’t take it back so it was like, okay, I had to stick with it, that I was going to be making a debut. And it went okay, I just did a trio and it was like, I would say a ten minute ballet. And then each year he just kept saying, okay, how about a second one? And I said, I think we should just leave it, like it went well, like beginner’s luck. Let’s just leave it. He said, no, no, I want you to keep trying and so he just kept believing in me, and he commissioned me every year. I think I did three ballets there before I got my first commission elsewhere. And I think my first professional commission, beyond the Veil Dance Festival, was Boston Ballet.

Alistair: Ah yes, okay.

Tiler: Yeah. So I did Boston Ballet and then BalletX had me, I did Northern Ballet, Cincinnati Ballet, and then I just made my first one for New York City Ballet, I’m going back to Northern Ballet doing Miami City Ballet and another one for New York City Ballet. So there’s a lot.

Alistair: You’re on your way.

Tiler: There’s a lot. Yeah.

Alistair: Just in terms of then going back to New York City Ballet and being the choreography and not the dancer. That must be… How is that? Because you’re, you know, you’re switching roles. You’ve got to be a little bit stern. You can’t always be friends with the,,, how is it? Is that difficult, or?

Tiler: It’s funny because I actually don’t find it difficult at all. I mean, I feel like I’m a very, I like to think, I hope I come across this way, but I’m very warm and open, and I feel like people can feel pretty comfortable with me. But I’m really direct and I know how to get, the things across that I need to. So I try to lead the room in that same way. And I think that because they still see me working and my work ethic and how I am as a ballerina, there’s a lot of respect that I think goes both ways. So, the only time I was nervous was for the Corps rehearsal, not the principals, because that’s who I spent my most time with. But I hadn’t really been in the room with that many people. The biggest ballet I did, I think was like 14 dancers. So the first day when I had seven, seven couples, and then all their understudies in the back, I remember saying to Roman, like, I’m a little nervous to go into this room. And it wasn’t because, I was nervous they would, like, judge me. It was just like, oh, I wonder how I’m gonna feel. And after five minutes, I was fine but that was the first time that I was a little like, oh gosh, here I am with my colleagues. But it was for the Corps dancers, which I found was quite interesting.

Alistair: It is, yes, because you probably didn’t have a relationship really before then?

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: Yeah, yeah. And in terms of when you’re approaching choreography, I noticed in, you know, some of the pieces that you’ve made, the music is quite important and, and the choices are interesting, is that how you start? Where are you starting in your, when you’re thinking of making a new work, is it an idea? Or is it the music? What’s the motivation at the beginning?

Tiler: It’s funny, I hadn’t really thought of that because normally I would always say it’s the music. I pick the music first, no matter what. But for this last piece that I’m getting ready to do for New York City Ballet, I picked that I wanted to do something with a structure like a Symphony in C, so I wanted to find something with movements and a finale. So then I found a piece of music that I felt could go with that. So normally it’s just the music, hands down as the first thing. But this time I felt like I really needed to find a piece that would fit with the idea I wanted to have.

Alistair: I do you think that’s because you’re learning about this? As you said, you had that conversation with Bill Forsythe and, you know, he’s very structure based. Is it sort of a, is that what’s going on? Maybe you don’t know what…

Tiler: I don’t know, actually, because I hadn’t really realised it until you asked me the question.

My first answer is always the music. It’s like the roadway, the road map for me, for choreography. I feel like, I definitely just how I choreograph is I try to make steps that look the way the music sounds to me. So when I hear it, I say, Oh, this sounds like this.nAnd so I want to make something look that way. And so if I love the piece of music, the steps kind of just kind of flow out of me, whether they’re good or bad, they just kind of come out and, yeah, I think that’s really nice that I’m still able to dance in a way.

Alistair: So is that how you work? Do you actually show? And then that’s, you’re not… Some choreographers give little tasks to the dancers, that’s not your thing?

Tiler: I’m like up in pointe shoes dancing.

Alistair: Right.

Tiler: And that was the first time Mira said to me, my last ballet, You’re gonna be in pointe shoes? And I thought, oh, I hadn’t even thought of not, you know, because I just spend my days in pointe shoes so, of course. if I’m trying to figure out the pointe work, I’m going to be in a pointe shoe. So it’s kind of fun because we’re like, figuring it out together, and sometimes they’ll say, oh, I don’t think it can work. And then I like, can do it. I’m like, oh, I think it can. Let’s figure it out. You know? Or I can do the partnering and say, oh yeah, that does feel not right. Like what would feel better? So I like that I can still do it, but I choreographed, Thousandth Orange when I was injured. And I remember saying to Bill, I don’t know if I can do it because I’ve only ever choreographed while I could move. And it was when my neck injury was really bad and I literally, physically could not dance. And I told Damian, I don’t think I should choreograph this year. And he said, no, I think, let’s try it. And if it doesn’t go well, we can always pull it. And Bill said, that’s when you really find out if you’re a real choreographer. If you can’t move, but you can still come up with good steps. And I said, Okay, I’ll try it. And, it’s one of the pieces that has kind of stuck around. So, I did it, but I definitely think it I work so much with the dancers in front of me, you know, I can feel something on my body, but then if it doesn’t look right on the person that’s going to dance it, I’m not set to it at all. You know, I’m like, let’s make it work for you.

Alistair: The thing that you’ve gone into next is basically producing and curating an evening. The one that, Turn it Out, which has been a big success over the last few years. It began during Covid, didn’t it? This idea of actually making something work as a whole evening. Just tell us what went on.

Tiler: I had, Bill and I had been, Bill Forsythe and I, had been constantly back and forth, like I had flights set that I was going to go to Vermont, we were going to work in his house. And then something just always kind of came up, like there was a huge storm, so we weren’t able to go, and we had just been trying to figure out a way to collaborate. And so I was home and I had just come back after my neck injury. So I had just been off for nine months. I came back for one season. I did like, Swan Lake and Allegro Brillante and then Covid hit and I thought, I cannot take another year off at this point in my career, you know, dancers career’s so short. And so I immediately started thinking of what can I do? How can I be creative? And so I texted Bill and I said, you know, I know it’s not ideal timing, but I bet we’re both free now. And he laughed and I said, would do you want to, like, maybe do something together? And he said, sure, when would you want to start? And I said, oh, I’m totally free. I could start whenever you want. And he said, tomorrow, question mark? And I was like, yes, exclamation point, you know? And that’s literally how The Barre Project came. We had no idea of where it would be seen. We didn’t know what it was going to be, how long, whatever. We just knew we wanted to work together. And I think that that’s why it’s such a successful piece, in a way, it’s because we just did it because we wanted to work together. There was no institution behind us. There was no hours we had to work. It was like we could do six hours if we wanted, or we could do an hour and a half, you know?

Alistair: Is this all on Zoom?

Tiler: All on Zoom. And my mum, I remember, was there, you know, because I, you know, we did it at my sister’s high school. My sister’s a principal of a high school, and she had a dance room, but we needed great internet. And so, because my mum’s dance studio has kind of okay internet. So we did it at the dance studio. And so my mum would be there to make sure the internet and he’d be like, Georgia, how’s that looking? And my mum would be like, should I really say something to Bill? And he’s like, yeah, yeah, I really want to know your opinion. So, so much of The Barre Project, I just have really great memories. And then we ended up bringing Brooklyn and Roman to Bakersfield, and we all rehearsed in that studio together.

Alistair: Bill was always in Vermont?

Tiler: Bill was always in Vermont and Roman even said to me one day, so when is Bill actually getting here? And I was like, oh, he’s not coming and he was like, oh. And Lex, we didn’t meet until the day we shot. He was in LA in his apartment. Literally, we have footage of him on his like, wood floor in socks, learning from Bill. And then we were all together one day and we decided to film it. And that was how we could get it out and Bill really wanted people to see this, and students to see this and get inspired and want to get up and be like, wow, I didn’t know that that’s what ballet could be, like and want to try it and learn the solos. And so after that happened, I just knew that I wanted to somehow get it seen live. I felt like this, this ballet has to be seen live and so I started thinking of what that evening could look like. And so I actually said to Bill, I said, you know, do you know Alonzo King, right? And he said, yes, I’m really good friends with him. And I said, do you think he might want to work with me? And he goes, you tell him that I sent him to, or I sent you to him. He goes, I’m totally happy to share the cell phone, but you make sure he knows that I’m the one that connected you. I said, okay, so I reached out and I just said, Alonzo, I’ve always wanted to work with you, and would you want to make something? And he made the duet Swift Arrow for me and he was the one that actually suggested Roman. He had worked with Roman at the Vail Dance Festival, and I. I was not in that piece, but I saw it and I thought, wow, I’d really like to work with this choreographer. And so he said, you know, I think you need a partner. And I think that Roman Mejia might be a good match for you. What do you think? And I said, actually, we’ve started dancing together a little bit at the company, and I like the way he is in the room, so I think that’d be okay. And so Swift Arrow was made that way and then City Center approached me about making it into a full evening, and I thought, oh, okay, what is going to be the, we need something else to tie it together. And I said, I want, I knew I wanted to make something with Michelle Dorrance. We had been friends for a long time and never created something together. I had done a piece of hers we did at the Music Center in LA, and it became in this documentary called Ballet Now on Hulu. So everybody knew the two of us together but, Time Spell was the first piece that we really created, and she brought Jillian in, which was Jillian Meyers, which was just the perfect third person, because I think that she’s the one that makes the dance genres blends so effortlessly that the two of us couldn’t have done without her.

Alistair: It’s turned out to be an incredible evening, of course, and just to let you in on a secret, the reason I wanted to bring it was because of The Barre Project and then, of course, what did we get? We got this amazing evening, and particularly at Time Spell, the Michelle Dorrance and, that collaboration. So, I mean, this is a big success. It’s been around. I mean, is that something you would want to do again? Would you want to try and, is that something, or is it?

Tiler: I think I would love to. It’s more just like when do you have the time? Like we don’t have a pandemic again, hopefully, knock on wood. But yeah, if I had the time to make something new, like I was in the wings with Michelle again last night, I was like, we gotta do something new. She was like, yeah, I know. But this show is also just so unique that I feel like I don’t even know if we could recreate it, you know?

Alistair: It was from its time.

Alistair: Yeah. It’s like, And it’s still relevant, so I’m like, we might as well show everybody this show for, while we can. But yeah, anytime I can get in a room with Michelle, I will.

Alistair: Yeah. And in between all of that, you’ve also been writing children’s books. So do you do that in your sleep or how does that work?

Tiler: I mean, both of the books… So there was the series Katarina Ballerina. That series got sparked while I was doing Little Dancer, this musical. Because my friend Kyle Harris, who plays my boyfriend in the show, in the original production, he was not a dancer and he started making this little poem about this person that felt like he was surrounded by dancers and just kind of like the outcast in a way. And, I thought, Kyle, this is so good. Like, there’s really a story here. And so anyways, we thought we’d make like, a cute children’s picture book, and we went to the publisher. They were like, no, we think this is chapter books, and we think there’s a series here and we were like, okay, well, that’s a lot more than we were originally thinking. But we did it. We did two books of that, and that was so fun. And I love the story of, and the heart of Katarina Ballerina. This book that just came out, XO Ballerina Big Sis. That one is more personal for me because it’s basically advice. It’s… I say it’s like the Mary Poppins bag that I’m giving to you. It’s a lot of things that have helped me, things that I’ve learned along the way and I basically feel like it’s your imaginary bag that you can, like, pull the advice out when you need it. You may not need it right now, but maybe in two years you’re like, oh, actually, I need to go back in and read that. And that just really came so organically.

Tiler: I didn’t set out to write a book. It was an Instagram series that I started, and, it was where I was talking about like a little bit more challenging topics, like I would talk about recovering from an injury because I feel like social media is really hard because everybody’s always putting their best picture out, or best video. And I feel like it’s so hard for students and kids to grow up, you know, right now, because you can obviously see that and then think, wow, I can’t do that so I shouldn’t dance. And I think it’s really important for them to remember that, like, that’s literally just a fraction of somebody’s life. And just because you can’t do that impossible trick you see somebody do does not mean you shouldn’t dance. And so I started talking about things that I thought were also very honest and real that I felt like they should see. Oh, professional ballerina is also dealing with the injury and struggling mentally and physically. And what I kind of the mindset I needed to get over that, and I signed off XO Ballerina Big Sis, and the comments and the connection that I saw from those. Somebody reached out to me and said, Tiler, I think you have a book here. And I thought, really? Like on all things…So I was just doing a little like two minute talk and a friend of mine said, no, no, there’s a book. She used to be an editor, and she said, why don’t you just write down a few, you know, topics that you might want to talk about and see if those could be chapters. And so that’s what I did. I literally did the book by speaking. I would video myself talking about each topic, and then she would help me put it into, like type it up. And then from there I would revise it. But I really wanted it to feel very conversational so it was like I was speaking to the kids.

Alistair: Yeah, lovely, lovely

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: You mentioned Instagram there. I mean, you’re pretty busy on that too. I see you have over nearly 600,000 followers, but that’s because you keep it up, right?

Tiler: Honestly. Yeah, that’s really from the pandemic. It was where the name Turn It Out with Tiler started. This show became that from my Instagram Live classes that I did during the pandemic. So for nine months, every day I would offer free dance class from my mum and dad’s kitchen. And I didn’t even know what an Instagram Live was. I literally, my mum taught dance at my sister’s high school and she thought, oh my gosh, wouldn’t it be so fun if today instead of I showed up on Zoom, if it was you? And I said, sure, I’m not doing anything, I’ll teach. And then I thought, well, if I’m letting the high school students teach, I bet you there’s a lot of people at home that don’t have their studios open. So maybe I should try this Instagram Live thing and see what it is. I had no idea how to work it. I mean, people were like, we can’t see your legs. And there were numbers, and I, I learned that those were the amount of people that were actually in the class, but I didn’t know what I, I mean, there was like 15,000 people a day doing this class with me from all over the world for nine months, and I get recognised more for those classes than anything, than as a ballerina, than anything. I can tell you like I was in Amsterdam and the person giving me ice cream, Roman said, I think she wants to say hi, but she’s so nervous, you know, she said, I’m so sorry. I just, I took your classes every single day for nine months.

Alistair: That’s so nice.

Tiler: Yeah.

Alistair: Isn’t it?

Tiler: It is. It means so much to me.

Alistair: It kept people going, basically.

Tiler: Yeah, and it kept me going.

Alistair: Yeah.

Tiler: Because it would be easy to not get up and make yourself take dance class. But I knew all these people were counting on me. And so every day it was something I looked forward to. And so when I was thinking about what to name the show my now mother-in-law said, well, why aren’t you naming it? Turn it Out with Tiler and friends? And I was like, oh yeah, everybody already knows Turn it Out with Tiler. So that’s how it came.

Alistair: I mean, if we had more time, we’d talk about the clothing line as well. But, I just want to end by asking you what you ultimately think you’ll end up doing. Do you think you will run a company at some point, or what’s the…

Tiler: I think I know that I love to see a dancer like, improve. So I think that like with these shows, I feel like I’m able, and when I choreograph, I’m able to say things that I think I might want to say to those dancers in the company already, but it’s not my place. So being in the front of the room and leading, is definitely something I feel like I get a lot of reward from. I love picking, seeing a young talent and then seeing them, helping them develop. And so I think that one day I think I would love to direct a company. I think that would be an amazing journey I would love to do. And but, you know, who knows what’s gonna happen? I feel like every day something happens that’s like, oh, okay, I guess I’m gonna try this because that’s like how the books came about. So, I never thought I’d be a choreographer either. And now I’m starting on that journey, so I guess I just will go with…I’ll see how it goes.

Alistair: I think that’ll happen actually.

Tiler: You do?

Alistair: I’ll have you back then.

Tiler: Okay.

Alistair: When you’re directing X company. We won’t say, we won’t say which one, but Tiler, it’s been a fantastic moment to talk to you and thank you for taking the time in your busy schedule.

Tiler: Thank you for having me, and having us at Sadler’s. I love London, and I love coming to dance here.

Alistair: Thank you.